Comments on: Hewlett-Packard and the PatriciaGate; worst than even I could think it would be http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/ All the stuff that goes through Vox's mind, including SF/Fantasy books, open source software, linux, security, and many other geeky pursuits. Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:28:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Vox http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-763 Vox Fri, 22 Sep 2006 03:54:58 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-763 Now, *that* is exactly how I feel about the US! Damn, it could have been so great! But..it got hookefd on republicans and...it sucks now :( You 'merkans need to learn to pick your presidents better...I mean...Bush makes Clinton look like the best thing since JFK! I can understand the whole we-were-attacked-and-need-security, but your president and company are taking it way way beyond what is reasonable. On the other hand...I'm still pissed off that nobody else is pissed off about HP's shannigans :) Now, *that* is exactly how I feel about the US! Damn, it could have been so great! But..it got hookefd on republicans and…it sucks now :(

You ‘merkans need to learn to pick your presidents better…I mean…Bush makes Clinton look like the best thing since JFK! I can understand the whole we-were-attacked-and-need-security, but your president and company are taking it way way beyond what is reasonable.

On the other hand…I’m still pissed off that nobody else is pissed off about HP’s shannigans :)

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-762 Rich G. Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:56:04 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-762 RE: Life in US sucking... sometimes, as an American when I turn on the tv and watch the news I feel like a parent must feel who helplessly watches an adult child with great giant gobs of potential get hooked on drugs and spiral out of control. You know they're capable of more, and they give glimpses of it, but they're still junkies and it hurts to watch. RE: Life in US sucking… sometimes, as an American when I turn on the tv and watch the news I feel like a parent must feel who helplessly watches an adult child with great giant gobs of potential get hooked on drugs and spiral out of control. You know they’re capable of more, and they give glimpses of it, but they’re still junkies and it hurts to watch.

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-761 Rich G. Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:47:02 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-761 I could be wrong. I'm only one person... but my level of ho-hum is more in tune with the place at large than your level of outrage... FWIW: I'm not as resigned to loss of privacy as I appear, but I'm savvy enough to know that presumption of privacy is a faulty premise and I do what I can to maintain my privacy. I could be wrong. I’m only one person… but my level of ho-hum is more in tune with the place at large than your level of outrage…

FWIW: I’m not as resigned to loss of privacy as I appear, but I’m savvy enough to know that presumption of privacy is a faulty premise and I do what I can to maintain my privacy.

]]> By: Vox http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-760 Vox Fri, 22 Sep 2006 01:23:12 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-760 All I can say to that is...ouch. And I'm glad I'm not a 'merkan nor living in the US anymore...I *do* appreciate my privacy, and I'd do everything I could to keep it...and I'd raise a racket about any and every thing like this that I see. Life in the US sucks lately...I hope you guys get rid of the idiots running the show sooner rather than later. All I can say to that is…ouch. And I’m glad I’m not a ‘merkan nor living in the US anymore…I *do* appreciate my privacy, and I’d do everything I could to keep it…and I’d raise a racket about any and every thing like this that I see.

Life in the US sucks lately…I hope you guys get rid of the idiots running the show sooner rather than later.

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-754 Rich G. Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:48:56 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-754 I've got the same level of paranoia. But you're forgetting I live in the country where Privacy happens to other people. Our gubment is insisting that ISPs keep records of everything I do online in case they need to look at it later. They're claiming it's to fight kp, but I don't buy it for a minute. It's just them all up in my business. and there's nothing I can do about it while the current czar is running the show. That much information in the hands of a private corporation is begging to be abused, stolen, hacked, and generally spread all over the world without my consent. We, in the US have I believe, no recourse short of revolution to stop the invasion of our privacy because we haven't any any longer. Not from businesses, and not from the gubment. Note the lack of interest in what has you worked up. We have, as a society, become inured to the aspect of the story that has you irate. I mean it when I say the story isn't that it happened, it's that so many people don't care because it's assumed as a given any more. Privacy is as dead as it can be. I use tor at home a lot. I use it not because I'm hiding anything but because I'm tired of the default being to reveal everything about myself. Does it work? Who knows. If I were a gubment agency in charge of watching its ppl I'd be working on Tor and axcrypt and pgp and all the other privacy places so I'd know how to open those doors. Open Source or not, I don't fully trust anything and assume that if it leaves my brain it's public knowledge because to assume anything is private is a misconception. The gubment had wires and cameras in my stores to spy on us for a tax case for 5 years. They had a ship off the coast listening to houses. They had flyover airplanes listening to conversations in cars. Our gubment spent more on investigating the case than the accused unpaid taxes were, and much of the spying was on people like me... people not involved. I'm accustomed to it now... I don't like it. I fight it when I can, but the assumption of privacy as a right in the US is a faulty assumption. It's not in the constitution and therefor doesn't matter... hell, parts of the constitution are being used as toilet paper in my opinion. I’ve got the same level of paranoia. But you’re forgetting I live in the country where Privacy happens to other people. Our gubment is insisting that ISPs keep records of everything I do online in case they need to look at it later. They’re claiming it’s to fight kp, but I don’t buy it for a minute. It’s just them all up in my business. and there’s nothing I can do about it while the current czar is running the show. That much information in the hands of a private corporation is begging to be abused, stolen, hacked, and generally spread all over the world without my consent.
We, in the US have I believe, no recourse short of revolution to stop the invasion of our privacy because we haven’t any any longer. Not from businesses, and not from the gubment. Note the lack of interest in what has you worked up. We have, as a society, become inured to the aspect of the story that has you irate.
I mean it when I say the story isn’t that it happened, it’s that so many people don’t care because it’s assumed as a given any more.
Privacy is as dead as it can be. I use tor at home a lot. I use it not because I’m hiding anything but because I’m tired of the default being to reveal everything about myself. Does it work? Who knows. If I were a gubment agency in charge of watching its ppl I’d be working on Tor and axcrypt and pgp and all the other privacy places so I’d know how to open those doors. Open Source or not, I don’t fully trust anything and assume that if it leaves my brain it’s public knowledge because to assume anything is private is a misconception.
The gubment had wires and cameras in my stores to spy on us for a tax case for 5 years. They had a ship off the coast listening to houses. They had flyover airplanes listening to conversations in cars. Our gubment spent more on investigating the case than the accused unpaid taxes were, and much of the spying was on people like me… people not involved. I’m accustomed to it now… I don’t like it. I fight it when I can, but the assumption of privacy as a right in the US is a faulty assumption. It’s not in the constitution and therefor doesn’t matter… hell, parts of the constitution are being used as toilet paper in my opinion.

]]> By: Vox http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-755 Vox Thu, 21 Sep 2006 03:41:50 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-755 Oh! And as for the book reviews...I'll post something when I finish reading what I'm currently reading. And about Peter Hamilton...the name doesn't ring a bell, never read anything by him that I can remember, so...no opinion, sorry :) Oh! And as for the book reviews…I’ll post something when I finish reading what I’m currently reading. And about Peter Hamilton…the name doesn’t ring a bell, never read anything by him that I can remember, so…no opinion, sorry :)

]]> By: Vox http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-756 Vox Thu, 21 Sep 2006 03:40:18 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-756 Well...the thing here is that they weren't only tracking their company-given cell calls...their *home phones* were tracked too, their calls audited...on their *private and personal phones*. That is what pisses me off. I have no problem with on-the-job tracking and auditing...nor with tracking and auditing of company phones and computers; hell, I set up systems that do that for some of my clients! But private phones and computers? That I don't like, not one bit. I don't mind controlling workers' work...you pay them to work, and you have the right to make sure they are working in any way you desire. But tracking them at home? in their private time? That's bullshit. And if that doesn't piss you off...well, let's say that you just don't have the degree of paranoia that I do :) Well…the thing here is that they weren’t only tracking their company-given cell calls…their *home phones* were tracked too, their calls audited…on their *private and personal phones*. That is what pisses me off. I have no problem with on-the-job tracking and auditing…nor with tracking and auditing of company phones and computers; hell, I set up systems that do that for some of my clients! But private phones and computers? That I don’t like, not one bit.

I don’t mind controlling workers’ work…you pay them to work, and you have the right to make sure they are working in any way you desire. But tracking them at home? in their private time? That’s bullshit. And if that doesn’t piss you off…well, let’s say that you just don’t have the degree of paranoia that I do :)

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-758 Rich G. Thu, 21 Sep 2006 02:07:50 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-758 I still don't get it at all. I get what they've been accused of doing, and I get that it's unethical, what I don't get is the furor, well, the online furor... evidently most people are like me and just couldn't care less. I work for a company that audits my company phone bill every month. I'm recorded on surveillance that is watched and listened to every minute I'm on company property. My cell phone has GPS on it and at a meeting the sales-rep said it could be tracked if they wanted to. Nobody in the company will say in writing that it isn't being used to track us. They track our movement with punches in and out of stores and use mapquest etc. to determine how long it should take for us between stores. Our company e-mail account passwords are something they could ask for on the company account... it's why I don't use the one they gave me or their network. Privacy in the work place is a luxury the higher up the chain I go. As a clerk nobody cared what I did... it gets worse higher up though, and those people were pretty high up. It would be, in my opinion disingenuous to assume they wouldn't be spied on by any means necessary, if not by each other then by rivals. They're playing for high stakes, and as such, like a movie star, the can expect helicopters at their weddings, and people to go through their trash. That's my perception of the business world today. Not pretty, but the way I think it is in a lot of places, and I think that's behind the roar of silence that we're hearing in regards to this episode of "Rich People Behaving Badly" next on Fox. I still don’t get it at all. I get what they’ve been accused of doing, and I get that it’s unethical, what I don’t get is the furor, well, the online furor… evidently most people are like me and just couldn’t care less.

I work for a company that audits my company phone bill every month.
I’m recorded on surveillance that is watched and listened to every minute I’m on company property.
My cell phone has GPS on it and at a meeting the sales-rep said it could be tracked if they wanted to. Nobody in the company will say in writing that it isn’t being used to track us.
They track our movement with punches in and out of stores and use mapquest etc. to determine how long it should take for us between stores.
Our company e-mail account passwords are something they could ask for on the company account… it’s why I don’t use the one they gave me or their network.
Privacy in the work place is a luxury the higher up the chain I go.
As a clerk nobody cared what I did… it gets worse higher up though, and those people were pretty high up.
It would be, in my opinion disingenuous to assume they wouldn’t be spied on by any means necessary, if not by each other then by rivals. They’re playing for high stakes, and as such, like a movie star, the can expect helicopters at their weddings, and people to go through their trash. That’s my perception of the business world today. Not pretty, but the way I think it is in a lot of places, and I think that’s behind the roar of silence that we’re hearing in regards to this episode of “Rich People Behaving Badly” next on Fox.

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-757 Rich G. Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:21:09 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-757 Make with the book reviews BTW! Is Peter Hamilton worth a read? Will Otherland, the epic series, EVER not put me to sleep (been in the first book since it was released in paperback, and that's not an exageration, I just can't read it) Make with the book reviews BTW! Is Peter Hamilton worth a read? Will Otherland, the epic series, EVER not put me to sleep (been in the first book since it was released in paperback, and that’s not an exageration, I just can’t read it)

]]> By: Rich G. http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-759 Rich G. Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:19:39 +0000 http://thesoapvox.com/2006/09/20/hewlett-packard-and-the-patriciagate-worst-than-even-i-could-think-it-would-be/#comment-759 Until the part about messing with non-employees I didn't get what the big deal was all about. Spying on a member of the press' computer is just wrong, but only because they wouldn't publish everything they found online like the media does to everybody they think is interesting. If the NYT could get a keylogger on Rumsfeld's computer they'd do it before you could say Linux RoXors! HP spying on their own employees... it's wrong and all, but doesn't get my panties in a bunch, and I don't get why, if that were all there were, it would be a big deal to the consumer. Why wouldn't it just be a big deal to the employees? I feel very much like this is a tempest in a teapot, and I don't get why you're so worked up about it... not only do you not work for them so aren't being spied on by them... you've escaped the whole United Spies of America thing by being in another country all together... maybe with Nafta we can send HP your way. *grin* Honest, tonight I'll read some of the articles, but the idea that a company abuses its employees and lies to them and spies on them isn't something that is either shocking or newsbreaking in my opinion... and that is probably the real story, that 'normal' people don't care because we just assume it's happening all the time. Until the part about messing with non-employees I didn’t get what the big deal was all about.

Spying on a member of the press’ computer is just wrong, but only because they wouldn’t publish everything they found online like the media does to everybody they think is interesting. If the NYT could get a keylogger on Rumsfeld’s computer they’d do it before you could say Linux RoXors!

HP spying on their own employees… it’s wrong and all, but doesn’t get my panties in a bunch, and I don’t get why, if that were all there were, it would be a big deal to the consumer. Why wouldn’t it just be a big deal to the employees?

I feel very much like this is a tempest in a teapot, and I don’t get why you’re so worked up about it… not only do you not work for them so aren’t being spied on by them… you’ve escaped the whole United Spies of America thing by being in another country all together… maybe with Nafta we can send HP your way. *grin*

Honest, tonight I’ll read some of the articles, but the idea that a company abuses its employees and lies to them and spies on them isn’t something that is either shocking or newsbreaking in my opinion… and that is probably the real story, that ‘normal’ people don’t care because we just assume it’s happening all the time.

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